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Adding a Circuit Breaker to Dual Battery Bank
I have two Group 27 batteries mounted on the tounge of my Travel Trailer. I also have a "Blue Sea" Battery Selector Switch allowing me to select Battery 1, Battery 2, or Both. I use "Both" when plugged in to Shore Power, the converter maintaining then at a full charge.
My Question:
The Converter can charge up to a 40 amp rate if no accessories are in use. I would like to install a Circuit breaker to protect the converter as well as the main power lead from the battery selector switch (about 12', running inside the TT Wall).
As I see it I have multiple choices:
1. Install a single circuit breaker on the battery wire before the Converter. The Distribution Panel is after the converter so it would be served by this Circuit Breaker as well.
2. Install a single circuit breaker on the Negative wire that serves Both Batteries, near the Batteries.
3, Install a separate Circuit Breaker on Each of the Batteries, before their connection to the Selector Switch.
It is my thought that the circuit Breaker(s) would do a better job of protecting the wiring INSIDE the trailer if they were installed as close to the batteries as possible. It is also my thought that a Single Breaker, installed in the Negative lead before it enters the trailer would protect the system up to the max rated current of the wire (#8) and the capacity of the Converter which is 40 Amps. This would require only one breaker as the negative wire serves both batteries.
Any thoughts on which is the BEST solution? Anyone who has done this and has another suggestion?
BTW, I have no desire to change types of battery nor wire sizes as both are more than adequate for my needs. I am just interested in adding a circuit breaker.
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Oldfordman
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09/07/08 09:15pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: 3000W Chinese Gensets Info.
I need another Champion C46540. The best price that I have found is $399.00 with free shipping from www.partsamerica.com. They apparently are not offering a discount coupon a the present time.
Does anyone know of a better deal. There are no local auto parts stores etc. that carry them.
Thanks in advance.....LynnFor those of you that live near a Schucks, Kragen, or Checker Auto Parts Store, keep your eye on the "In-Store" specials. Weekends have yielded some sales like "20% off any item in the store over $100 (regular posted price). This is usually posted on the door when these sales are in effect. Many of the Schuck's Stores here in the Pac Northwest have an abundance of stock on this generator and a "Sale" like this will lower the price to around $275 or so. Some stores even stock the LPG powered genset (larger and heavier than the 3500/4000 watt unit but nice for power emergencies at the house this winter.
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Oldfordman
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08/31/08 02:42pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Can I quieten my Generator?
In the Army, we dug holes for our small generators. Made a big difference.
But since we were preparing to face thousand Russian tanks coming through Fulda Pass, I never did understand why a noisy generator was an issue. :)I remember those days (1965-67). There were some that suggested that the hole merely be filled in with the generator still in it after a few hours of listening to it. It wasn't as loud as the "little joe" in the M-60 though. That single cylinder diesel kept everyone in our unit awake with a constant "banging" inside our heads. What one had to put up with just to keep the radio running.
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Oldfordman
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08/13/08 12:17pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Can I quieten my Generator?
I happened to visit the "Burning Man" website a year or so ago and noticed that they had some "Generator Tips" posted. They suggested that a loud generator could be made more acceptable to your neighbors if you made an enclosure consisting of 4 sheets of plywood. Just fasten them in a square 8' X 8' around the generator using anything from nails to duct tape. This would allow ample air circulation around the genset while directing the noise upward. There is no real simple way to build an enclosure for these small gensets that doesn't restrict the air movement that is essential for cooling them.
The idea of carrying 4 sheets of plywood may not be appealing but balance that with the noise. Maybe some sheets of insulation material may be lighter and do as well?
As for me, I would welcome the noise of a generator compared to the noise of 120db Rock and Roll/Country Music accompanied by the chaos of several hundred drunks.
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Oldfordman
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08/12/08 12:42pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Cold Tire Pressure
Several years ago, before I retired from a Tire Company I was heading a program to market a Tire Pressure Monitoring System that could be added to Cars, Trucks, RV/s, etc. While doing so I uncovered an obscure parameter that Engineers use while designing and testing tires. It is the actual "Temperature" they consider when formulating a Cold Inflation Pressure. It is 64 Degrees Farenheit.
When a tire is inflated to its design Cold Inflation Pressure, knowing that the pressure will increase/decrease with temperature, these TPMS devices calculate the "Required Pressure" for a given temperature. Otherwise a tire loosing air would heat up, show an increase in pressure, and fail to give warning before the tire failed.
As a rule of thumb, a tire will increase one pound in pressure for each 10 degree increase in temperature. Using this "rule", a trailer tire that measures 110 degrees after running down the road should read 55 PSI if it was inflated to the recommended 50 PSI at 64
degrees F.
I don't have a monitor on my trailer tires but I use the above "rule", along with an Infra Red Thermometer, to set the pressures on my tires. If I start out with an ambient temp (same as tire temp if I hadn't driven yet) of 55 degrees a pressure of 49 lbs is OK. If the Temp is lower, say 30 degrees, a "Cold Inflation Pressure" of 46-47 lbs is adequate.
If you follow the above it is far better than "SWAG"ing (taking a "silly wild a$$ guess" on pressures. The tire will be inflated just like the design/test engineer expected it would over a wide range of "ambient" temperatures.
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Oldfordman
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08/10/08 06:08pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: more info on tires.
I retired from the Tire Industry 5 years ago and as a responsibility of my last position I purchased valve stems by the millions, from China. For the most part they performed as good as any US produced stems from companies like Schrader. The stems that caused us the greatest grief were manufactured in Europe and some from a US company that had leaking valve cores.
Just because they are made in China doesn't make them bad.
For what it's worth, a valve stem costs about $0.05 each when bought in bags of 500 from a manufacturer. They sell to the Tire Dealer for about $0.09 ea in the same bag. The Dealer will then try to sell it to the Customer for prices ranging from $2.00 to $5.00 each.
If one wishes to worry about valve "stems", the rubber ones are not as big an issue as those that are permanently attached to the TPMS sensor that is mounted on/in the wheel. If your local tire store does like usual when changing/repairing a tire, they will remove the valve core and toss it in a cup on top of the tire changer. When ready to inflate the tire they will merely reach into this cup and grab whatever core that they touch, install it, and then inflate the tire. The PROBLEM is that the TPMS sensor requires a specific core. The one that came with it IS the right one and the one they replace MAY or MAY NOT be the correct one. If you have a vehicle equipped with a Tire Pressure Monitoring System and are getting new tires be sure and select a Dealer that knows what they are doing. They won't be breaking the sensor or installing the incorrect core.
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Oldfordman
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08/10/08 05:51pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: 3000W Chinese Gensets Info.
Where I'm not as understanding is the obsession it's turned into for others, i.e. repeatedly posting the same question, or those posting three or four times a day within a single thread, often following up to their own questions.
If this thread is someone's hobby, take a look on some of the other forums. There's a lot to learn and discuss that has nothing to do with CHondas.
Why is it that there is always someone that visits a forum, reads a while, then decides that the forum (or in this case a thread) is not taking the direction they think it should and proceeds to condemn those that are not following his perceived rules.
I welcome ALL contributions even if they are somewhat repetitive.
One of the great qualities of this country is Freedom. Freedom to post and Freedom to read what you want.
In short, lighten up, lane hog. This is most likely the longest running thread that has offered more than one tip or two on chinese generators. If you feel it offers you no value, then perhaps your own advise should be followed. Find another thread.
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Oldfordman
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08/10/08 02:22pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: 3000W Chinese Gensets Info.
lane hog---
I can appreciate your opinion feeling that quieting a Champion Genset (like the one I and many others on this thread own) but consider the following in rebuttal:
One can buy a ticket to almost anywhere in the US on an Airline yet there are those that fly private planes that are slower, noisier, and at a far greater cost than the Commercial Carrier would charge.
One can buy an airplane from companies like Cessna, etc that are ready to go yet there are those that buy "Kits" and take years to assemble, get certified, and then fly.
Luxury and Sports cars are sitting on Dealer's floors waiting for eager buyers yet one of the largest parts of the Automotive Industry is the Aftermarket Specialty Parts. More noise, More Speed, Fancy everything.
I happen to like guns and shooting. I could buy rifles from any of several hundred manufacturers and the same for pistols. My choice is to buy a "good" rifle or pistol and then apply my "skills" to make it better. Takes months for me to finish a pistol and my latest rifle has over 2 years of "refinements" added with many more to go.
I can buy a moving van load of ammunition for all my guns that is Factory Made but I prefer to hand craft my own.
In short, sometimes a guy needs a hobby. For some, that hobby is taking a good generator and making it quieter.
When one is going about their "hobby", time and expense are often not the first consideration. If it was, fishermen would not own boats and gear, the'd make frequent trips to the fish market. Hunters would stay warm, dry, and save a small fortune by just buying "farmed" Venison, Elk, Moose, and even Bear. They would buy "simulated" trophy heads made of fake fur and fiberglass (no doubt made in China).
So when Old and Slow, the "Professor", and others talk about making the Champion quieter cut us some slack. It may just be Hobby Talk.
BTW, what is your favorite hobby?
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Oldfordman
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08/08/08 08:43pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: 3000W Chinese Gensets Info.
However, the second that I begin to add any significant load (e.g. ceiling fan) the frequency drops to 49Hz sharply and then fluctuates between 49Hz and 54Hz. The voltage holds steady with absolutely no drop and the engine makes no noticeable difference in RPMs. Any thoughts?
On perhaps a related note, as soon as I switch to the Genset, one of my circuits that is an arc-fault breaker trips, not allowing the circuit to be powered. This did not happen with my previous generator using the same transfer switch.Two things come to mind when I read this. Frequency IS a function of engine RPM's on this Genset. The engine is probably slowing enough to read near 50 hz but not enough for you to "think" it is slowing down.
As for the Arc-Fault problem, did your previous genset have a bonded neutral? The neutral part of the Arc-Fault breaker is an essential part of it's function.
AFCI
Many of the installation instructions warn about certain appliances that are problematic with AFCI's. Often mentioned are fans, toasters, and vacuum cleaners.
"The AFCI circuitry continuously monitors current flow through the AFCI."
If your genset is not maintaining constant RPM (dirt in carb, plugged Air Cleaner, fuel problems, etc) the AFCI may view the uneven current flow as unwanted arcing and shut down. It is only reliable if the supply of "current" is steady.
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Oldfordman
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07/27/08 08:35pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: 3000W Chinese Gensets Info.
I still cannot figure out what West Coast company made purple oil other than Royal Purple.
Union Oil Company? AKA: Union 76 or 76 UnionDing! Ding! Ding! We have a winner.
I worked for them just when they bought Pure Oil company. Union Oil Company of California became Unocal in 1983.
The Purple Oil they marketed was called Royal Triton.
Here is an old Ad Clip featuring Marilyn Monroe:
Royal Triton Oil Commercial
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Oldfordman
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07/20/08 12:36pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: 3000W Chinese Gensets Info.
And, what happens to the conventional oil in the mix when temperatures rise beyond their normal flash point? My take is the addition of synthetic to a conventional oil will do little to change the point of breakdown for the conventional part.
Please understand I don't want to turn the generator forum into an oil forum. I just want to get a good feel as to what really is a better lubricant for the small air cooled engines used to power these gensets.
The issue is not the Flash Point where the oil vapors will support combustion but the tendency of an oil to "Coke" or form carbon that can require a chisel to remove.
Regular oil gives up the ghost in the mid 300deg. range, Semi-Synthetics hold out into the High 300- Low 400 Degree range and a full synthetic and provide good lube characteristics in the mid 400 to almost 500 degree range. These are temps that no portable generator will survive even if the oil was totally indestructible.
Synthetic is the BEST, Semi- is BETTER, and regular oil is GOOD.
The key isn't what type of oil that is used, it is CHANGING it in your Genset fairly frequently. There is a little more than ONE-HALF a Quart of oil that has to do all that work. Don't be cheap, change, change, change. I Do so once a trip or every month if I use it regularly. If it is only on Standby, it get's changed every 6 mo's with 30-60 minutes of "exercise" after the change.
Oil is Cheap when it comes to reliability, even the more expensive Synthetic.
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Oldfordman
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07/19/08 04:57pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: 3000W Chinese Gensets Info.
Well, Rob threw out the subject of zinc (ZDDP) being removed from most motor oils due to problems with the metal causing damage to catalytic converters. Apparently the makers of motor oil have determined that since automotive engines with flat tappets are now no longer made there is no need for the metal.
I used to work for the company that owned the patent on ZDDP (Hint: they were a West Coast Co that made Purple Motor Oil and it wasn't Royal Purple).
ZDDP works as an anti-wear agent by interfering with the welding of asperaties in the metal (the little sharp spots on a surface) and thus the "galling" of the journal surfaces.
There are several keys here. One is that the amount of ZDDP is REDUCED, not eliminated in oils of today. Two is that the additive works best when the engine is new and the surfaces are their roughest. Three is that many HD engine manufactures have increased the size of the sumps to allow for more TOTAL ZDDP in the oil. Cut the amount per quart but double the number of quarts(?).
As for the Champion Generators, these engines are not operating under anywhere near the loads and speeds that the "HotRodders" are working with. I bought a Titan Pickup in 2004 that puts out 305 HP (BTW it has a 7 Quart Sump). The "HotRodders" are pulling over 800 HP from that enging. Now THAT's a lot of load on the bearings and cam lobes. On that note, With the exception of GM, very few engines use the old traditional Cam,tappet, push rod system. Most are Overhead Cams and Roller Tappets are NOT used. The cam pushed directly on the valve stem cap, just like on the face of the old tappet.
As for the loss of the ZDDP, there are other additives coming into the marketplace for Oil Mfr's to use.
Last offering. To increase mileage in many new engines the manufacturers are resorting to polishing many internal parts. Nissan for example, in their 5.6 Titan Engine polishes the cam lobes and journals in order to reduce friction in the valve train. Less Friction equals more HP and better mileage.
Just my contribution to the discussion.
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Oldfordman
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07/15/08 09:04pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Sani-Con ... What are your thoughts?
Make sure you watch e grandkids. The system is only ment for human waste!!!! If the kids through something else down the you will not be a happy camper!!! good luck rvtommy
Used to have a sign for the "Head" in our boat. It said "Nothing goes into the head unless it has been eaten first".
Never any plugging problems (with the "head" that is).
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Oldfordman
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07/13/08 11:45am |
Tech Issues
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RE: How do you keep your generators out of the rain?
Take a piece of PVC Pipe and bungee secure it with a bungee cord wrapped around the generator. Take a large golf umbrella, open it, and stick the handle in the end of the PVC Pipe. A golf Umbrella is usually 2-3 times the size of a regular umbrella. Or you could look for one of those folding shelters that are often on sale for as little as $29.
BTW, this method works great for a rainy parade too. Just use a longer pipe secured to one of the folding chair legs so the umbrella is held up higher.
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Oldfordman
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07/13/08 11:41am |
Tech Issues
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RE: 3000W Chinese Gensets Info.
2) I've read here that I should "exercise" the generator periodically by giving it a load to deal with. What besides the AC on my trailer, which is inconvenient, would provide a good load easily?
TIA,
Eric
I pull mine out (I got the Wheel Kit so it is fairly easy to do)and use it to run my Electric Weed Eater. It takes about an hour to trim the perimiter of my property and I don't have to:
a) keep pre-mixed gas for a gas weed eater
b) run a long extension cord that is constantly getting unplugged
I got one of the larger (7.5 Amp) Weed Eaters and it puts more than enough load on the generator to give it it's "exercise".
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Oldfordman
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07/13/08 11:33am |
Tech Issues
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RE: ScanGauge with Insomnia
Even if it does come on it draws about as much power as the memory circuit in your radio. It is not going to drain a battery unless you don't drive the rig for a year.
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Oldfordman
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07/09/08 03:58pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Hot Water Heater Spews At Me
In reading you post you indicated "campground". I would assume you were plugged into shore power. I had the same issue with an Atwood 6-Gal heater several years ago and had to replace the thermal limit switch. It is a small round "button" with two spade lugs for the wiring. It MUST be in contact with the heater tank in order to function. Otherwise you have a 6 gallon "Tea Kettle" and it will continue to boil, blowing steam out the T/P (Temp/Press) relief valve.
Your cure may be as simple as just making sure there is no insulation between the thermostat "button" and the tank.
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Oldfordman
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07/09/08 03:53pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Engine Overheat/ Radiator Cap Pressure
Increasing the pressure of the cap merely raises the boiling point of the coolant (3 degrees for every pound of cap pressure). This keeps the coolant from leaving the system but is not the reason for overheating. If you had a lower pressure cap installed you would merely start loosing coolant into the overflow bottle sooner.
Clean the radiator and check belts for proper tension.
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Oldfordman
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07/09/08 03:48pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: 3000W Chinese Gensets Info.
Anyone have any particular thoughts about the cleaning of these generators my particular one being the Champion RV Ready 3500watt.
I found that Compressed Air was my friend when cleaning gensets that had been out on rental. If there are areas that have the sand/silt "glued on" by engine oil that might have leaked some Electrical Cleaner (CRC brand is one) works quite well as it disolves the oil and evaporates quickly. Doesn't seem to bother paint either. Today most rental shops just clean them up with a pressure washer and let them dry before sending them out again. You'd be surprised what these generators will withstand. They certainly aren't "Watches".
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Oldfordman
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07/09/08 03:38pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Gear Oil variances
Don't even think about anything else but SYNTHETIC. Ford factory fill is synthetic for the last several years. I use Mobil I synthetic 75W-90. Good for any axle.Except those that DO require 75W-140.
The "Numbers" work the same for Gear Oils as for Motor Oils. The 75W is the same in 75W-90 and 75W-140. The difference is that the higher number indicates an oil that will provide better cushion for the gears at High Temperatures.
Gear Oils are not usually loaded with Detergent Additives because they aren't exposed to byproducts of combustion. Just lots of Extreme Pressure additives.
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Oldfordman
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07/06/08 08:20pm |
Tech Issues
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